Alkeshka – Let There Be Seizures

Video Artist

Interview on March 16th at Cellar Door, Dongcheng

Alkeshka—让我们嗨翻全场！

视频创作家

于3月16日，东城区，Cellar Door酒吧采访

KL: Have long have you been doing this?

A: I’ve been doing visuals for about three years. I did it in college as well but stopped when I came to Beijing so after two years here I picked it back up again – three years ago.

KL：你从事视频创作这行多久了？

A：我做这行有三年了，我在大学的时候也做过一些视觉但中途停止了。两年后我来到北京，又开始做起这行了。

KL: Why’d you quit doing it?

A: I’m not a trained graphic designer so I realised that I was spending so much time on one visual where I could have been studying. I quit for awhile and then came here and realised that it’s a lot more fun when you’re not having to study all the time.

KL：为什么中途停止了呢？

A: 我不是一个训练有素的平面设计师，并且我意识到制作一个视觉作品要花好多时间，我可以利用这些时间好好学习，所以我暂时放弃了。之后来到北京，我发现不学习的时候，玩点视觉还是挺有趣的。

KL: So, it started off as something you did purely for pleasure or have you always wanted to do some ongoing collaborations?

A: Yeah, it’s always different working with musicians. You can use one visual for a certain style of music then it might not be acceptable in another. So, the stuff I do with Noise Arcade can be a lot more chaotic than something for Motorbike Girls. It’s very different artist by artist but when I was doing it before it was mostly for experimental musicians and getting back into different genres took quite a bit of getting used to.

KL：所有你是纯粹因为乐趣而开始视觉创作吗，你有想进一步与别人合作吗？

A:是的。和很多不同的音乐人合作感觉很不同。你可以为某一种特定的音乐制作特定的视觉效果。所以我和Noise Arcade合作的作品就比和 Motorbike Girls合作的作品更失控。不同的艺术家会有不同的制作风格。我之前大都为实验音乐家创作，现在转变到其他不同风格的音乐制作，这中途花了蛮长的时间去适应呢。

KL: Working across different genres, do you have to work with narrative at any point?

A: Just visuals as accompaniment for everything. Nothing, for me, is narrative. We were going to plan in the future but we haven’t gotten to that yet with an unnamed project.

KL: 做了那么多不同的风格，什么时候你会做叙事型作品呢？

A：只要视觉能为任何东西点缀就足够了，对我而言，没有什么是叙述性的。我们以后准备计划这个，但目前还没有任何进展，这个项目还没敲定。

KL: Which bands have you worked with?

A: Noise Arcade, Comp Collider, I did some stuff with Gui Gui Sui Sui before. Mostly it was pieces that Dann [Gaymer] and Su [Nan] created and I just mixed them. Motorbike Girls, Puking Unicorns, Disco Puppet, Dee [Sheng Di], this unnamed project I’m working with now. They are in several other bands so I won’t say them.

KL： 你和哪些乐队合作过？

A：Comp Collider，Noise Arcade, 之前还和鬼鬼祟祟合作过。大部分作品都是Dann [Gaymer]和Su [Nan]创作的，我只是将音乐结合起来。像这些未命名项目：Motorbike Girls, Puking Unicorns, Disco Puppet, Dee [Sheng Di] 这个未命名的项目是我现在在做的，这些作品都来自不同的乐队，我就不一一提了。

KL: It’s a secret. A covert mission.

A: Deep ops. I know it’s cliché, but I’d have to kill you if I told you.

KL: My will to live is dissipating so I might appreciate that service at some point.

A: Deal.

KL: 你是军事特工哦？还不能提？

A：是的，这很保密。我知道这是陈词滥调，但是如果我告诉你了，我要把你杀了才行。

KL：我都快不想活了，我应该感激你赐我一死才对。

A： 成！

KL: That could be a very interesting visual project as well but trying to match it to the right audio…

A: That might be difficult. My favourite so far has been working with Noise Arcade because Mike [Cupoli] is usually saying, “just give people seizures. Do it! Go!” Working with Comp Collider was really fun. Those guys were actually just, “Colours. Shapes. Go!” Which is a lot more fun being able to have free experimental rein. Not having a lot of constraints. Some bands typically are very precise with what they want. What colours, bit rate, everything. So it’s fun to just be able to go out and do whatever I want.

KL：这肯定是很棒的视觉创作，外加配上合适的音频...

A: 那会很难哦。到目前为止，我最享受的还是和Noise Arcade的合作，因为Mike [Cupoli] 总是说：“我们的目的是让现场燥起来！尽情发挥！。”然后和Comp Collider合作也很有趣，这群家伙总说：“有想法，就大胆做啊，不管什么颜色形状，你决定就好”。有这种自由发挥的实验机会真的很有趣，有些乐队很清楚自己想要什么，视觉要做成什么颜色啊，要多少比特率啊，所有事情都有要求。所以只要能做我想做的，就已经很满意了。

KL: So do you have a sense of responsibility, this weight on you that you have to represent their musical vision?

A: Not at all. It's fun. I don't feel much weight with it. It's more or less just reading the audience. If people are typically getting bored you don't want to keep doing the same thing you're doing so you have to adapt. The same thing an improvising musician would do. You have to be able to adapt to the crowd and adapt to the music at the same time. That’s a little bit of weight but other than that, not much.

KL：用你的作品去代表他们的音乐风格会不会使你觉得有负担？

A：不会的，没有觉得有多大负担，反倒这样很有趣。其实或多或少就是要读懂观众的心，如果观众觉得你的作品很无聊，那这个时候你需要调整了，一个即兴创作的音乐家也会这样做。相比较而言，最重要的是你的视觉创作，在适合群众的同时还要适合音乐背景。

KL: That would make you very software dependent, too. How does the tech side of things go?

A: The tech side is a little more fun. I use a GoPro HERO5 and a Nikon D3300 to get everyday scenery. On one project we worked on, I just took a trip to the hutongs with my GoPro. There were some things I had to edit out particularly people pissing in the street.

KL：那这样会很依赖电脑软件，你有什么在技术方面的操作吗？

A：技术操作其实很有趣的，我日常摄影用的是GoPro hero5和尼康D3300。之前有一个我合作的项目——胡同游，就是用GoPro拍的，里面有一些图片需要我后期加工，其中就有一幅一群人在街上撒尿的图。

KL: I feel like there would be some bands who would really appreciate someone pissing in the street.

A: Some but I feel like that wouldn’t get passed the censor bureau. Someone might come by and ask me to “have some tea” and I might be missing in China for a few months.

KL: That’s quite bad, too because tea is a diuretic so it would lead to more pissing and it would be a downward spiral of trouble.

A: Especially if the camera’s rolling.

KL: And it always is, right, with a GoPro?

A: That’s right, it is. Just strap it on your head and go have tea. Get beat by a few armed guards. That would make a good video.

KL: All in a day's work.

KL：一定有会有乐队喜欢这个。

A：但我觉得这些作品很难通过官方审查。某人人说不定某天来找我“喝茶”呢，也许之后我就消失好几个月呢。

KL：那你也太倒霉了，茶不愧是一种利尿剂，喝得多，排得多，排得多，说得多。

A：特别是在摄像移动时。

KL：所以你去哪都带着GoPro吗？

A：当然啦，你把它戴在头上，就可以出门和任何人“喝茶”了，如果有人打你，GoPro也都帮你录下来了。

KL：一天里做过的所有事都能录下来。

A: Exactly. But, yeah, as for software there’s a few different ones that you can use Resolume, for example, or sometimes you can even take the raw data of a video and tweak the audio components. So you’re altering audio components on raw data and then you’re able to export it back to a video and you can see some really cool effects but, that’s particularly time consuming because it doesn’t always work. If you mess up the header of a video, your video is done. It will not work. You always have to constantly back files up because experiments do have their downfall. Sometimes your computer will crash if your audio is too big, the raw data is too big or, if you’re using the wrong file type. Using different types of video files live can be problematic at times. I've had computers crash mid-set. The crazy blue screen of death. It sometimes can work but then you’re looking at a blue screen for the next 20 minutes.

A：对啊。但是对一些软件而言，稍有不同，例如你可以使用Resolume（一款VJ音频软件），或者你可以将视频的原始数据和音频组建到一起。当你把这些音频的原始数据改掉后，你就能将他们倒回到视频里，这样就能形成一个很酷的视觉效果了。但是，这种方法很费时，因为这种方法并不是总能起效，如果你把视频标头弄混了，那这个视频就完了。所以你必须要不断的给这些文件备份，因为这些试验确实有它的缺陷。有时候如果你的音频太大，原始数据太大，或者你使错了文件类型，那你电脑就会死机咯，使用不同类型的视频文件也会带来问题。我电脑在设置中途就有死机过，电脑直接给我黑屏...有时候黑屏后还能工作，但有时候要等上20分钟才能运行。

KL: Was there any footage, in particular, that has been taken by the mid-set computer crash that you were upset to lose?

A: Once we were doing it at Temple and I had three or four .mov files on top of each other and I thought, hey why don't I add a fifth because that’s smart. Usually, most computers can handle three or four videos depending on the size and these were all quite large. So, when I added the fifth in it just went crazy. My computer started flashing all these blue screens popping up and then you saw my desktop.

KL：电脑死机后，有些视觉镜头或片段也没有了，你会不会难过？

A：有一次我在Temple做现场的时候，我有3-4个MOV格式的文档在运行，然后我就想，干脆再加一个吧，反正操作是自动的，通常大部分电脑都是能同时处理3-4个视频嘛，当然也看视频大小，那几个视频还挺大的，我再加一个视频上去，电脑刚好饱和，结果崩了，我看到它开始不停地闪，然后就黑屏了，接着你看到了我的桌面.....

KL: Do you always use your own visuals or do you also collect interesting stuff?

A: Both. I’ll use visuals that I’ve made and sometimes I will use sci-fi films, but I don’t think I’m allowed to use for music videos. I might get a phone call from Fincher or other directors who aren’t particularly happy with that but we have used films like Blade Runner, Predator, Alien. So, you'll have a bunch of hectic colours and then boom Sigourney Weaver's face is staring at you. Some people in the audience do typically find that off-putting and a little disconcerting seeing Sigourney Weaver staring back at you when there's a metal band playing.

KL：你平时都用自己创作的视觉作品还是也收集一些其他有趣的作品呢？

A：都有吧，有时候使用自己创作的作品，有时候使用一些科幻电影元素。但我感觉一些电影制作人不会同意我去使用他们的电影来做音乐视频，像Fincher或其他导演会很不满地给我打电话。但是我们有使用过电影元素，像Blade Runner, Predator, Alien，用的就是电影元素。这些作品会让霓感到一团激情燃烧的颜色，像炸开了一样，然后你会雪歌妮·薇佛的脸在盯着你。其实当金属乐队表演时，许多观众一看到雪歌妮·薇佛就会感到厌恶和不安。

KL: It’s even worse when you’re in the shower.

A: One of my favourites is using scenes from Blade Runner because the colours are already pretty interesting in the film alone and then being able to tweak the distortion, taking the blues out and adding extra reds does make for a good video.

KL：幸亏她没在你洗澡的时候出现，哈哈，不然更让人讨厌。

A：我最喜欢的一个作品，使用了《银翼杀手》里的场景，因为里面的颜色真的太赞了，它能处理失真画面，除掉蓝色，添入红色，并且制作出一个很酷的视频。

KL: They do have usually have distinctive colour palettes. As far as your adventures around the hutong with your GoPro, is that an important element? You want to bring in the Chinese, the local?

A: Definitely. One video we made before is called Editing Bad Translations and the whole thing I wanted to do is take something that’s significant to China. I live in a hutong right down the street and wondered what here has no one seen outside of China? Duh, the hutongs. So I just went for a walk and in parts of the video, you can see a guy cleaning a fish in the street over a grate. There's at least 15 fish beside him and he's just sitting there, chilling. You go a little farther and there's someone taking a piss. You go a little farther and there's maybe 80 or 90 Qingdao bottles just stacked around. That's the hutong and this is going in the video now. So, instead of stopping there I just kept walking so as soon as the hutong ends you see a Starbucks and then you see all this modern China. Then the video ended up being about 12 minutes long so it matched the audio perfectly.

KL：这确实是一个与众不同的调色板。但是带着GoPro去胡同探险是你日常必备吗？你想在作品里加入中国元素吗？

A：当然啊！我之前做的一个视频叫《烂翻译的校订》，我想做的就是加入中国元素。我住在胡同里嘛，然后我就想中国什么地方是大家不太愿意去的？嗯...胡同啊！所以你在这个视频里也看到有一部分是我去散步的场景。还能看到一个人在清理街上被碾碎的鱼，他身边至少有15条鱼，他坐在那怪吓人的。你再往胡同里走，你会发现有人在小便，再走远点，你会发现有80-90只青岛啤酒瓶堆积在路边，这就是北京的胡同，也是这个视频现在所呈现的。我没有停下脚步，而是继续前行，直到走到胡同的巷尾，遇见星巴克，接着看见现代化的中国。这个视频有12分钟长，刚好和音频时间相吻合。

KL: So, this is an introductory lesson for the uninitiated to China?

A: Pretty much, yeah. That video was quite difficult to work with because it was over two and a half gigabytes so putting that into the rendering software then transferring it to raw data. Adding reverb and chorus to it then going back to a video took at least 15, 20 tries just to get the video back in one piece. At one point it was just a green screen and you could see some movement through the hutong but it was mostly green. Getting rid of that took a while. The final product turned out good. At least, I think so.

KL：所以这是给不熟悉中国的朋友的入门课吗？

A：对啊。这个视频制作起来相当费劲，因为它有两个半字节，我们要把它添入渲染软件，之后又转移成原始数据，然后添加混响和合音，最后转回成视频。我们至少做了15，20次才完成这个视频。对了，这个视频背景为绿色画面，你可以看到胡同里有东西在动，不过动的都是绿色物体。虽然这个视频费了好长时间，但最终效果非常好，至少我很满意。

KL: Does the frustration show through?

A: It does. There were a few times I rage quit, slammed the computer down. It doesn't stop until I open it back up, CTRL-ALT-DELETE, cancel everything, then I rage quit again. Then the drinking starts.

KL: And you get even less done.

A: You get less done.

KL：中途有受挫过吗？

A：有啊，好几次气得我想退出了，啪的一声把电脑一关。之后打开电脑，又气得我按CTRL-ALT-DELETE键，删除所有东西，又是一次放弃，然后接着喝酒去了。

KL：然后你做的越来越少了。

A：是的

KL: Do you think you have a particular visual style that is recognisably your own?

A: Seizure-inducing, chaos, lots of colours, too many colours. I would say, I like going heavy on the greens and reds, you know, Christmas style. Adding distortion to a video, I'd like to think it's my style because I'm not clicking a button that says distort. A lot of it is importing the raw data and finding the effects that I like in a video and then programming it into the software and then using it live. 

KL：你觉得你的视觉风格特别到能被人识别出吗？

A：我觉得我的作品风格是“疯狂、混乱的感觉，丰富饱满的色彩”。我想说的是，我喜欢那种很厚重的绿和红，有种圣诞的感觉，然后视频里再添加点失真的意境，这是我的视觉风格。因为我不会直接点击电脑中某个按钮，让它失真就失真，而是导入原始数据和特效结合，接着编程操作，转到某软件里，然后使用它现场直播。

KL: Does constantly doing video works linked to audio change the way that you listen to music in your everyday life?

A: It does.

KL: Synaesthesia?

A: As far as synaesthesia goes, I can hear a certain bass line and think that would look good on a video. So being able to replicate that on a video takes quite some time to adapt to but once you get it, it’s one of the best feelings. It’s like you just made a sound turn into a visual effect and getting that takes a lot of trial and error but once you get it, it’s worth every second.

KL：那你经常做这些视频和音频连接工作有改变你生活中听音乐的方式吗？
A：有的。

KL：有一听到音乐就联想到图形、数字、色彩或其他东西吗？

A：如果有的话，应该是我能听出一些低音部分，并且能辨认出哪个制作成视频会好看些。当然这也需要花很多时间去复制这些制作成视频。但只要你一完成，就感觉超赞！好比如你只是做了一个声音出来，但你能把它转成视频里的视觉效果，尽管中途经历大量的失败，但一旦完成，你会发现，它值得你花每分每秒。

KL: Are there any particular songs or bands that you want to make videos for, even if it’s only for you to enjoy at home?

A: I have been seeing Dress Code all over these days and would really like to work with them. Those guys are all incredibly gifted musicians with some catchy tunes.  Also, I was listening to zydeco recently and there’s a lot of good driving beats which would probably go so well with some visuals.

KL：你有没有想为一些乐队或歌曲做视频呀？哪怕自己做给自己享受。

A：我这几天一直在看Dress Code ，还想和他们一起合作呢。这些人都是很有天赋的音乐家，创作的曲目朗朗上口。另外，我最近还听一些zydeco（柴迪科舞曲），里头有很多不错的拍子，也许可以很好地将它和一些视觉艺术结合起来。

KL: That’s getting into some diverse genres, there. Do you feel a bit limited by the bands on offer in Beijing?

A: Not really, no. Everything I work with is usually a different genre, from experimental IDM to punk rock and everything in between.

KL：恩...这样类型会很多样化。你觉得北京的乐队受限多吗？

A：也不全是，我的作品基本上都是不同类型的，从实验IDM到Punk摇滚还有一些介于中间的的作品。

KL: If you’re working with someone like Comp Collider where there is a degree of improvisation, do you have to do somewhat of a mind meld with the guys?

A: Yeah. They are in their own world and will change on the ground as they’re moving so I’ll have to adapt with them because I don't know where they’re going. Those guys can read each other and I have no idea where they are going. You have to be where they are going to be without having too much going on, on the screen and they start toning down. Sometimes I do want to go balls to the wall and make it just absolute unadulterated chaos but you have to keep yourself back because if they start toning down their playing style then I have to as well. Or, I could just be an asshole and just keep it going like a strobe light or static. Keeping myself in check is kinda difficult.

KL：如果你要和像Comp Collider 这种即兴表演的人合作，你想和他们心有灵犀吗？

A：当然想啊。其实他们都活在自己的世界里，随着时间的前进，他们也会不断地改变自我，所以我要跟上他们的节奏，因为我不知道他们即将去哪儿。这些家伙能够读懂彼此的心，可我不了解他们。所以我必须在他们身边，跟上他们的进展。为了创造出纯粹的混乱效果，我会全力以赴。有时候若他们想淡化演出风格，我也必须淡化我的作品效果。有时候我也很健忘，忘记检查作品，导致视频一直闪，或者静止不动。不过，提醒自己检查真的挺难的。

KL: In that collaboration are you considered a part of that improvisation? Would you go to their rehearsals or would they talk to you about their intentions?

A: Mostly they tell me their intentions so they say this is what we want to do, this is what we plan on doing, let’s make it work. Usually, I’ll send snippets of the videos to each of the bands or each musician. I’ve only been criticised a few times and always take that into account. Sometimes it’s difficult to rein in the chaos.

KL: Is it always the same person?

A: Usually. Most people are pretty cool.

KL：你们在上次的合作里，你有加入到他们即兴创作中吗？你有和他们一起彩排吗？还有他们有告诉你他们的想法吗？

A：大部分情况下，他们会告诉我：“hey，这是我们计划要做的，我们想做的，我们一起加油。”通常呢，我会给他们发送视频片段。我有好几次因为失误被批评了，所以我对这件事非常重视，尽管有时候很难掌控局面。

KL：都是同一个人？

A：通常吧，大部分人还是挺酷的。

KL: What do you have coming up?

A: After the Noise Arcade and Disco Puppet show at fRUITYSPACE on Wednesday I’ll be at RECroom on April 1st and 8-Bit on April 22nd. I’m also doing a music video for Mike [of Noise Arcade] now. Don't know which song I’m gonna choose but as soon as I figure out, I’ll let you know. We’re making a series of music videos for him and it’s very difficult to keep up with him because the man can put out music. His last album I did one called Developmental Speed. It was so much fun to work with. I just took old footage from beach trips and goofing off around Beijing, spliced them all together. It's kinda creepy at some points because you see the silhouette of a head pop up. As for the series we’re trying to do three, four or five more. Hopefully.

KL：你现在有什么想法？

A：Noise Arcade 和Disco Puppet在fRUITYSPACE演出后，4月1日我会去RECroom 演出，4月22日在 8-Bit演出，我现在也在为Mike [Noise Arcade] 做音乐视频，目前还不晓得选哪首歌，但是如果我确定了歌曲会告诉你的。我们在给Mike的音乐视频做一个系列，但我发现很难跟上他的脚步，因为他总在出专辑。他有一张和我合作的最新的专辑是叫Developmental Speed，这张专辑超级有趣，我只是把从漫步海滩到闲逛北京的老镜头拼接到一起，看上去挺令人毛骨悚然的，因为你会看到一个头的轮廓突然出现在你面前。至于这张专辑，我们希望能做到系列三，四，五这样。

KL: So, it’s definitely a partnership at this point?

A: He’s the musician, I just swim in his wake.

KL: Would you consider doing visuals for anything independent of music?

A: Yeah, I wouldn’t mind doing that. I would like to get involved with art galleries but I haven’t really spoken with anyone about that yet but it’s something that I would like to do in the future. Art galleries or at small bars. I’ve done visuals at Soi Baochao with Van a few times while DJing, for other DJs or just while he’s playing music and just trying out new things. I’d like to do other bars, other environments as well. 

KL：所有你们现在是合伙制吗？

A：他是一名音乐家，我只是帮忙打杂的。

KL：你有想过为除了音乐之外的平台做视觉创作吗？

A：有想过。我想和一些艺术画廊合作，虽然我还没和任何人讨论过这件事，但这是以后我想做的，在艺术画廊或小酒吧现场做视觉。我在宝钞仓库做过几次视觉，Van也一起，他主要打碟。对于其他DJ而言，他们只是图个新鲜，然后随便玩玩玩音乐而已，而我想在不同的地方做视觉创作。

KL: Do you think your vision is more Gulou-centric or would you do stuff at Sanlitun as well?

A: We’ve played at RECroom before with Eclectic Electric. I did one thing last summer with them and it was so much fun. It was a Eurotrash party so we were using old BBC videos and people were getting into it. I think I heard Barbie Girl at least three times that night.

KL: Oh, God!

KL：那你现在的注意力是鼓楼这个圈子还是你也会在三里屯做演出？

A：在和 Eclectic Electric合作前，我在RECroom演出，去年夏天和他们做了一件事，超级有趣。那是一个欧洲派对，所以我们用了一些旧的BBC广播视频，然后大家都投入到制作里，那天晚上，我至少听了三次Barbie Girl 的声音。

KL：天哪！

A: I said, okay, you guys wanna do that? I can do some weird stuff, too. It was pretty fun doing stuff like that. I’ve only played in Sanlitun a few times. I've noticed a lot of people don't really like the chaos aspect that is more welcomed in Gulou so you can definitely see that there’s a dichotomy existing between the two. Wudaokou is a different scene, too. A lot of bars there won't have any visuals. They just put on a movie and say play.

A：然后我说：“你们想做这些是吧？那我也可以做一些奇怪的东西。”其实还是挺有趣的。我在三里屯演出过几次，我发现大家不太喜欢喧闹嘈杂的音乐，这种音乐在鼓楼比较受欢迎。所以你可以看到这两者间还是有些差距的。五道口也是个很与众不同的环境，很多酒吧没有视觉艺术，他们只是简单地放电影而已。

KL: Temple was doing that for a while.

A: I remember Kill Bill was on at one point and I could listen to metal and watch Uma Thurman slice some people up. It’s perfect.

KL: They were stuck on Who Framed Roger Rabbit for a while there.

A: I appreciate that. I’m perfectly fine with Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

KL: After a few blackout drunks, you wake up in the morning and are like, what’s reality? Why was Bob Hoskins there?

A: There are cartoon characters in your room, little birds flying around.

KL：Temple有段时间也是只放视频。

A：我记得有一次他们放Kill Bill 时，在某一片段，我听见了金属的声音和看见了Uma Thurman将人切成一片片，这太有创意了！

KL：他们有段时间热衷放Who Framed Roger Rabbit。

A：我觉得Who Framed Roger Rabbit挺好的。反正我挺喜欢的，没意见。

KL：晚上醉的不省人事后，早上一觉醒来，精神恍惚，然后纳闷：“我在虚拟世界吗？为什么 Bob Hoskins也在那里。

A：这时你的房间里会出现几个卡通人物，然后发现小鸟在飞来飞去。

KL: Let’s wind it up with what’s your dream project? Where do you wanna head from here?

A: I would like to see more musicians have VJs – people who can adapt to music instead of just pressing play on a video. I have seen some people around recently that are doing some pretty great work and I would like to see more of that with bands. Playing music is highly respectable. I love it but having someone that can adapt music to visual design is something I’d like to see more in the future.

KL：好吧，你梦想的计划是什么？你准备朝什么方向发展？

A：我想在不同的演出里看到更多的VJs，我希望这些VJs能将视觉效果和音乐风格相融合，而不是简单地将音乐剪辑成视频。演奏音乐是件受人尊敬的事，我很享受。我最近看到有人在做一些很棒的视觉创作，我希望看到更多这样的乐队。但我更希望看到未来有更多的人可以将音乐与视觉设计相互融合起来。

KL: So, it’s not so much what you’ll do but how you’re going to make an impact on society?

A: Hopefully, people don’t say, God, this sucks! Stop doing it. Hopefully, I’m not going against any movement. I’d like to get more people involved with making designs using raw video as opposed to just finding something on YouTube.

KL: Maybe you’ve gotta work on some sort of propaganda angle.

A: Perfect. Get me in touch with the CPC. I’ll do it.

K：所以，其实你只是想影响这个社会而已？

A：是的，我希望大家不说“我靠，这么垃圾！我不干了！”这种话，当然我不会反对任何形式的创作。我想让更多的人参与到原视频制使用和视觉设计的过程中，而不仅仅在YouTube上纯找东西。

KL：我建议你做一些宣传工作。

A：完美。让我多多了解下共产党。我会的。

KL: Maybe you need to start flashing subliminal messages.

A: We’ve done that before. Just flashing the word “headache” every now and then. I don't know if it worked or not. Maybe the music induced some headaches.

KL: I think you should do something measurable. A visual Simon Says and watch the crowd.

A: That’s a good idea. Tap your head. Jump up and down.

KL: Scratch your nose.

J; I’m gonna have to do that. I'll do that for the Wednesday show and hopefully, can make some people pat their head or turn a few circles.

KL: Or something completely ridiculous.

A: Throw your shoe. Preferably at Michael.

KL：也许你需要放一些通过下意识影响观众的东西 。

A：我们以前试过。在视频里偶尔闪现“头痛”这个词。我不知道是不是起作用了。也许是音乐引起的偏头痛。

KL：我觉得你可以做些“可衡量”的事情，比如放做一个视觉《西蒙说》的视频，接着观看下观众对此的反应。

A：这主意不错。比如拍拍自己脑袋啊，或者蹦蹦跳跳下啊。

KL：挠下鼻子啊。

A：是的，这周三演出我会用下这个技巧，希望我能让一些人嗨到摇头晃脑。

KL：或者让他们做些更疯狂的事。

A：比如朝着Michael扔鞋。

Alkeshka, is a musician, producer and VJ hailing from the United States. His style varies performance to performance, but always contains a particular sort of peculiarity. Catch him VJ with Noise Arcade, 4 Channel Club and bREAKTHEDOLL at RECroom on April 1st and with Noise Arcade and DmH at 8-Bit on April 22nd.

胡尹萍 Hu Yinping – Green Hats and Xiao Fang

Artist and knitwear pioneer

Interview on March 10th at Stuff’d, Jianchang hutong, Dongcheng

胡尹萍 – 绿色的帽子和小芳

从事艺术创作，针织品开发

于3月10日 东城区箭厂胡同赛Stuff’d采访

KL: okay, you’ve just recently had an exhibition in Arrow factory gallery in this hutong (Jianchang, Dongcheng) with a lot of knitted green hats, can you explain what you’re trying to do with these ideas?

HYP: The green hats on this exhibition were initially made several years ago by my mother. Actually in 2015, when I went back to my hometown, I found that my mom had knitted two big bags of beanies. That was her routine task.

KL: 最近你在 Arrow Factory 画廊（东城区箭厂胡同）里办了一个展览，都是关于一些手工编织的绿帽子。这些帽子怎么来的？是什么突然让你办这个展览呢？

胡尹萍：这个展览是我母亲以前织的帽子，但是实际上这些帽子我不是为了展览而准备的。2015年的时候，我偶然回家时发现妈妈正织帽子装了两麻袋，心里很难受。我发现这是她日常中在做的工作。

KL: So, your mother’s work made you sad because she works so hard to make them, are you telling this story or there is a big story?

HYP: Basically, during my mother’s era, there was a tradition that a woman has to learn a skill before she gets married. Because hand knitting was a necessary and valuable skill in the 1980s when people lived an impoverished life, it was also an essential requirement of a prospective wife. After China’s reform and opening up, knitting was gradually replaced by mass production of factories and began to disappear. I was born in 1983, life was so difficult at that time, I still remember when I was young, my family didn’t have spare money to buy new clothes, so my mom made all of the clothes for the whole family, including scarfs, sweaters, pants, hats...if the clothes were worn out, my mom would mend them, even sometimes I had to wear my sister's cast-offs which had a lot of patches.

KL：所以你妈妈的工作让你难受，因为她要花那么多心血在上面。你能讲讲这个故事的来龙去脉吗？

胡尹萍: 其实在我母亲那个年代，女孩子嫁人之前，要学习一门手艺。男人选择妻子时有个标准，会织毛衣的女人是吃香的，因为在当时的八十年代，生活很贫穷，一个女生要是会织毛衣可以让家里人都能穿暖和，这是一个很必要的生活技能。但是到了八十年代改革开放后，中国进入快速发展阶段，家庭妇女为家人织毛衣的工作在慢慢被批量的工厂生产替代了，这门手艺也渐渐不被使用了。我是1983年出生的，当时的生活水品还是很低，在我童年很长的一段时间里，我穿的都是母亲给我手织的毛衣毛裤围巾，当时母亲缝缝补补给我穿，我姐姐哥哥穿过的会给我继续穿。

KL: So, you were born in Deng Xiaoping’s period of opening of China. Is the idea that China has changed so much but your mother hasn’t, so the hats come to symbolize the big change before Deng and after Deng?

HYP: Yes, kind of, in fact, the impact of any national policy on a small town was very profound, I believe that many people who were born in the 80s or 70s all dressed in clothes knitted by their mom. When I grew up, I left my hometown and went to a high school in a city. When I moved to the new environment, I was so impressed by the outside world and how life was so different from what I had in my hometown. I found that the clothes shopes sell are really stylish with good fabric that I’ve nerver seen before. By contrast, the sweaters my mom knitted were out of date . I still remember that when I was in junior high school, I had to pinch and scrape in order to save money for buying some trendy clothes, such as LI-NING, ADIDAS, METERSBONWE. So from then on, I didn’t dressed in the clothes my mom knitted anymore, and my mother gradually gave up this work.

Due to reform and opening up, a lot of people of my age left their hometown and chose to work and live in metropolises, such as Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou. This is a very common phenomenon in China now. I’m part of this migration wave. I left home and went to Chengdu for study, then came to Beijing for work and have stayed until now. Now I usually go home every two years.

KL:你生活在邓小平改革开放这个背景下， 所以你想表达的是中国发生了很大的变化，而你的妈妈依然未变，这个帽子就成了改革开放前后的标志？

胡尹萍:哈哈，帽子代表不了那么多，谈不上表达，但确实在大环境下对个体是受到影响的，我们都是被大时代影响了的，其实国家的任何一个政策，波及到一个小镇，影响都很大的。我相信在我们这一代的，包括70年代末的人，都有穿过母亲亲手织的衣服。

胡尹萍：后来我上学离开家，到了外面的世界，突然被惊到了：哇，外面的世界好丰富啊，发现我妈妈织的毛衣很土，店里卖的衣服是那么新鲜，见都没见过的布料。上初中高中的时候，我会省钱去买一些当时很时尚的牌子：李宁，阿迪达斯，美特斯邦威这些，之后就不穿母亲织的衣服了，觉得土了。那段时间里，母亲渐渐不织毛衣了，因为大家也不穿了嘛。我们这个年代的人，因改革开放，各种政策，大学扩招，选择到北上广这种大城市生活和工作，这是中国很普遍的现象。我是这个浪潮中的一员。我离开老家，到成都去念书，再到北京生活工作到现在。现在两年回家一次。

KL: Where is your hometown?

HYP: Luzhou, Sichuan province.

KL:你老家哪儿的？

胡尹萍: 四川泸州。

KL: Where is it? Like near Chengdu?

HYP: I think it’s about three-hour drives to Chengdu. I’m a typical local person from Luzhou.

HYP: Once, I returned to my hometown for an exhibition and didn’t let my mother know, and I found that my mother was knitting hats, and I was told that a purchaser from a hat factory wanted to buy my mother’s hats and was going to pay my mom 2 yuan per hat. Usually, one hat is around 7 to 8 yuan, the purchaser pays too little, and I asked her why did you start knitting hats again? And she said there is nothing to do in her life, she likes to kill time by knitting hats. I suddenly realized that my mother still hasn’t changed from the way she used to live.

There are a lot of women playing card games and Mahjong in the town, this is what the housewives often do, but my mother holds the opinion that as she always loses at cards, she would prefer to spend her time doing something meaningful rather than waste money on card games, even though the salary is meager.

KL: 离成都多远呀？

胡尹萍: 离成都有三小时的车程。我是典型的小镇青年。哈哈哈。2015年的时候，我在成都有一个展览，我悄悄回了趟家，没告诉我妈妈。然后我发现她在织帽子。是因为有帽子收购商在我们老家来收帽子，一年去次，每个阿姨都要备货几百顶，她们自己买线，价格很低廉，线是劣质的，还有不来收购的风险。我问过母亲为什么又开始织帽子？她说打发时间。我们小镇很多人都打牌，但我妈妈觉得，打牌容易输钱，与其打牌还不如找点活赚点钱，她是一个典型的传统妇女，她生活是，洗完衣服的水是必须要冲马桶的。

KL: That sounds like my mom, too.

HYP: I understand my mother, she was born in the 50s to 60s in the days of planned economy. Thrift is implanted in her character under the background of food rationing and other hardships. She is accustomed to living in a way of saving money that determines the way she looks at the world. Then she would think in this way: “ if someone pays me, I will knit hats no matter how much he gives me, even 1 kuai, 2 kuai.” But you know, some woolen yarn is of such poor quality that sometimes her hands blistered.

HYP: I can’t tell her about all of things I’m preaparing because I want to pretect her. I have to pre-arrange all of stuff before she involves in this project. I don’t regard myself as an artist, I feel more like a director, you know, because this story is like a movie which exists in reality. So that’s the story about the hats from my mom.

HYP: After that, I decided to help her. Initially, I wanted to collect my mom’s hats, but I knew she would not be willing to give them to me. Then I found one of my college classmates - Xiaofang. (I named her) She would love to help me after she knew this story, and then under my instructions, she found my mother and told her that a French hat company based in Lyons wanted to buy her hats and provided her a good price. My mom was so happy and agreed to cooperate with Xiaofang.

My mother can’t speak Mandarin, and doesn’t know how to use Wechat, so it was a little difficult for her to start business with Xiaofang, especially when Xiaofang paid my mother by WeChat, my mom didn’t know how to withdraw money, as well as she fact she doesn’t trust the internet, so for a long time, she thought if she would suffer a loss through the internet. But after several deals, she gradually got used to WeChat and knew how to accept the “transfer,” although she still doesn’t know how to pay by Wechat.

Once, I put the bag of hats in my studio and my friend Hezhi who is also an artist, asked me what was going on, and I told the story to him, then he put forward an idea that I should hold an exhibition. Later, he spoke to Arrow Factory and they gave me an exhibition in November last year. Wangwei, the boss of this project, approved the proposal after only 10 days.

Then I began to prepare but I didn’t want to sell these hats, because the products are my mom’s painstaking effort. I want to collect “her time,” and, as she is far away from me, these hats became a way in which to understand my mother’s life. But one day, an idea came to me. What if I arranged for a factory to produce and sell them? So I went to a factory and asked them to produce some hats the same as mine, but they told me that these hats cannot be produced by machines, only by hand, they have to find the folks who have the knitting skill to finish them, so it reminded me of the hat purchaser in my hometown, they all act the same way, so I would prefer to have my neighbors earn money rather than let these purchasers and factories take my money.

The hat was 3 kuai in the beginning, while I paid 30 kuai per hat to my mom under the guise of Xiaofang. My mother made a good profit, while some of the neighbors are jealous about this, and they made ironic remarks to my mom: “What ‘s the point of making green hats?!” “Are you making your husband a “green hat”? (This is a Chinese idiom, in English it means the husband is cuckolded).

I found these neighbors (middle-aged women) to knit hats with my mom, and I set up a special purpose entity (a fake company) and had these neighbors work for me. Now there are 30-50 people working for me, but they don’t know I’m their boss. In their mind, their boss is Xiaofang. Currently, We are trying to knit more hats with other colors, because green hats don’t meet the customers’ needs and Xiaofang is in Sichuan province to supervise the process.

KL：你母亲和我母亲很像诶。

胡尹萍: 这很正常，父母出生在50-60年代，中国计划经济时代嘛，当时物质匮乏，他们习惯一种生活方式：节约，这是长期的生活习惯，加上她有这么一个手艺，她就觉得“有人给钱，干嘛不织”哪怕1块钱。但那个毛钱非常差，她的手都织出水泡了

胡尹萍：因为现在所有的事情都不能告诉她，我希望她能有正常的状态不收干扰，为此我需要做大量的工作，为所有接触的东西都要预先排演好，我希望把她保护起来，有时候我觉得自己不像是艺术家，更像是导演，像现实里的剧场电影。

我发现她织帽子的事情后，我想帮她改进下毛线。我想找个人替代我去收藏我妈妈的帽子，肯定不愿意为我做“自己人不能赚自己人的钱”，我找了一个大学同学，让她扮演外贸商去收我妈的帽子，并且给她好价钱，我妈妈果然答应了。我帮朋友取了个新名字叫小芳。我妈妈不会说普通话嘛，我就让她用微信联系小芳。小芳一般给我妈妈付款都直接微信转账，刚开始，她相信网络，但是交易几次之后，她渐渐发现还是挺可靠的，然后她开始了和小芳的“互联网生意”直到现在。但她只会在微信上收红包，不会转账发红包。后来一位朋友偶然知道这事并推荐给箭厂做了这次展览。去年12月份低实施了这个项目。我不想卖我妈的帽子，我只想收藏她的时间。但很多人想买，我想有人喜欢能佩戴也是价值的一种。工厂机器做不出来，只能找人工手做，她说过她的邻居很羡慕她。

之后我假冒成一个公司，找这些阿姨织帽子。截止目前有30-50人在织，老家都没人打麻将了，麻将馆都快倒闭了，麻将馆老板现在也开始织了。在他们眼里，小芳就是她们的”老板”。小芳现在一直在四川准备其他不同颜色的帽子，因为单单绿色的话，很难卖出去，中国人不喜欢戴绿帽子。

KL : How much you selling them for?

HYP: It varies. Between 90 and 300 yuan per hat, depending on the quality of wool.

HYP: I’m developing a new brand called “Hu Xiaofang” in Taobao store, which aims use knitting to spread the warmth of family to everyone so they will recall their childhood memories. Also, I wanted to provide jobs for these women who other than gossiping and taking care of their children are idle and fooling around every day, .

KL：你打算卖多少钱？

胡尹萍: 价格在几十到三百之间，根据不一样的毛线质量而定。我现在做的品牌叫胡小芳，我想把胡小芳做成一个纯手工织品品牌，把这种童年的温暖分享给更多的人，并且我希望那些会织帽子的阿姨都有工作，这帮妇女都太无聊了，天天都在家带小孩，现在有工作也是件很有意义的事情。

KL: Will your mom find out?

HYP: Not yet. I hope not, she is so busy now, she has endless hours to knit and work, and teach her neighbors how to knit and sew. These neighbors have three-days training before they can knit by themselves.

KL： 你妈妈会不会发现啊？

胡尹萍: 目前还没发现，她现在很忙，因为有30多个人在一起织毛衣。因为这些阿姨在上岗之前，要学三天，才能独自织毛衣。

KL: These are designed by your mom? She made the pattern?

HYP: Yes.

KL：这些图案，款式都是你妈妈设计的吗？

胡尹萍: 是的。

KL: Why you still get your mum to knit hats in green wool when no one would buy them?

HYP: Because green color was better for her eyes .

KL: 绿帽子不那么畅销，你为什么还让妈妈织绿色的毛衣呀？

胡尹萍：因为绿色保护眼睛啊。

KL: How much profit do you hope to make? Do you think you will sell a lot then make a lot of money? Is the art or story more important than profit?

HYP: Actually I hope I can make money from this business, because it can keep my mother’s job and provide these neighbors a long-term job. As for me, I don’t depend on this business to make a living, the art exhibition will end, it’s temporary. Every hat has its own story behind it, I hope people buy the story behind, not just the hat itself. I don’t think selling these arts works will reduce the value of arts. And I don’t believe that arts are only displayed in gallery, arts should be in everywhere. The original intention of this exhibition is not for art, I just want to help my mom and these middle-age ladies, and show them a new lifestyle.

KL： 你希望能赚多少利润？你觉得自己卖的价格高不高？你想不想多赚点？你觉得艺术比利润更重要吗？

胡尹萍: 其实我希望赚钱，因为这样就可以让这些阿姨能长期有这份工作。但我本身不依靠这个赚钱。赚钱了就能运转自负盈亏，我不能一直投入，让阿姨们有一份相对的生活来源和一份有意义的工作。我不觉得这对我的艺术有损耗，如果艺术的定义狭隘到这样，我宁愿不做艺术。我做这事的初衷是为了母亲，现在能扩大到家乡的阿姨们，为何不做呢？不是所有在画廊里展示的才是艺术，艺术是无处不在的。

Hu Yinping is currently running a crowdfunding campaign to create a space for more women to knit in comfort. Check it out and donate here.

胡尹萍以为更多的阿姨创造一个可以舒舒服服织帽子的空间为目的开始了一个众筹项目。戳这里去看看吧！

Sponge Gourd Collective – An Evolving Cityscape

Zine collective

Interview on March 1st via email by Angela

AL: The zine first grabbed my attention on the shelves of Yue Space during the last Loreli art market. So how did the group come together? Whose idea was it? 

SGC: We formed Sponge Gourd Collective as a response to the constant surreality of living in Beijing in the present moment. We found that we were attracted to a lot of strange, similar aspects of the evolving cityscape, and decided to try to solidify this amazement into a tangible project. Plus, as newcomers to Beijing, we felt a common urge to document the changes we were witnessing. That became the first issue in our zine series, called People's Square/人民广场, which combines all of our skills: Daphne does ethnographic research, Diane is a visual artist, Justin is a photographer, and Beatrix is an aspiring filmmaker.

AL: And what made you want to document urban growth and the dark side of gentrification in China?

SGC: Initially, Diane and Daphne were planning to do a project mapping out the values and priorities that are driving urban development in Beijing and NYC. Because of their experiences volunteering and working at CAAAV, a community organization based in Manhattan Chinatown that works with low-income Asian communities—including Chinatown tenants being evicted because of gentrification—they wanted to see how conversations around this process in New York could inform their understanding of development in Beijing.

We know gentrification isn't the same in both contexts, and that apart from the fact that ethnically Chinese communities are affected in both cities, the environments encompassing these instances of gentrification differ widely. Even within China, the communities affected are diverse: for example, the residents of Enning Lu in Guangzhou have responded differently to processes of gentrification than residents of Beijing's Gulou Hutongs have. The idea for the project connecting NYC and Beijing evolved as we realized that the scope of what we wanted to do was huge, and we had many unanswered questions, so we decided to do a project with a more specific focus on Beijing first. 

Growing up in China, Justin experienced the breathless pace of change firsthand, and feels that he hasn't had time to deeply appreciate what past generations have left behind. Like all Chinese people, he has had to confront the meaning of living in a "developing country", and coping with how the reality of the situation often does not live up to claims of increasing prosperity. For those of us who have come to China more recently, after our parents or grandparents chose to leave, living here and witnessing this change is a chance to make sense of what has happened since our families immigrated. For example, the street where Daphne's mother grew up in Shanghai is now a heritage site, Diane's father's rural hometown near Yangzhou is being turned into an ecoentertainment park, and the traditional courtyard house where Beatrix's grandfather was raised is now an unrecognizable apartment tower.
 

AL: I really love that you guys made the zine bilingual. I personally feel that the subject of gentrification is not being covered sufficiently and efficiently in Chinese. Whose idea was this? Who was the person in charge of translation/interpretation? Did the residents have qualms about speaking to you guys at all?

SGC: It's actually covered in a lot of different ways in China, but without the exact term 'gentrification'. Any news about 拆 is discussed so much that it's a norm. Even apart from that, it's such a common occurrence - most people have lived through experiences of demolition or gentrification of their own neighborhoods or homes - that 'news' about it becomes almost unnecessary. The main difference between our coverage and Chinese coverage may be that we, as a group of newcomers to Beijing, may be more shocked by some elements of what we're seeing, so this comes through in what we make — the framing of the zine narrative is completely from an outside perspective looking in, and the specific content shows what we found striking and worthy of recording, which may already be normal to locals. 

As for making the zine bilingual, we want our work to be accessible to readers both in China and in the diaspora, and having it in both Chinese and English broadens our reach. 

The residents were fine with speaking to us: some chatted, while others were busy going about their lives and did not talk to us. One woman was surprised we were there - she said there are snakes in the village and people don't normally come visit. The real ethical concern is that what we're doing is coming from a place of privilege compared to people who live in the urban village, and whether we are exploiting their stories for our own gain. There's a responsibility when engaging with any community to think about this ethical concern, and to evaluate your capacity as an outsider (individual or group) for impact (negative or positive, intentional or not). Three of us are foreigners who graduated from Brown. We're coming from a place of curiosity, and that in itself is definitely privileged. We try to maintain awareness of this privilege in how we frame the project; rather than trying to influence readers to see things from our perspective, we acknowledge the subjectivity of our voice while preserving some sense of open-endedness. We hope that the zine takes people through the steps of our exploration instead of making any conclusions, and along the way, invites readers to join in. 

AL: Do you feel more empathy towards the buildings or the structures that have been destroyed or the people who were forced to leave / the collapse of communities?

SGC: It's not that we have empathy toward the structures, but it's more that they both symbolize and bear evidence of how the demolition affects living people, in both positive and negative ways. Sometimes renewal and redevelopment can be great for people who live in these places because, for example, their compensation allows them to move into an apartment with proper plumbing and better amenities. We're most interested in understanding whether people are prioritized or exploited in the process of negotiation that happens when land is expropriated. Most of the time, it ends up being very unfair, and that's what the issue is—not that the building has been smashed, but that it was smashed in the middle of the night on a man and his elderly mother, who have nowhere else to go. 
 

AL: What do you hope to accomplish by making this zine? 

SGC: We want to record some slivers of Beijing's current state. As we've stated and as everyone knows, China is changing fast, and the present moment-- especially the mundane, perhaps unpleasant parts that don't accord with narratives of progress-- may be quickly and easily forgotten. As human beings, we think we're smart, but most of us have the memory spans of goldfish, and forgetting the past makes us easier to manipulate. Actively deciding to preserve these narratives has the potential to give us more clarity in the face of an unpredictable future.
 

AL: It seems that even though less than 100 of the original households in this village remain, we learn from the zine that the community is still very much vibrant. Does it matter that the original residents no longer live there if the community is kept alive?

SGC: Community isn't necessarily about being tied to a specific location, or preserving the exact residential makeup through time. It's about people feeling belonging, having history with a place, and attaching their identities to other people's identities. The zine points out that people still live there in order to show that there's a huge imbalance between the state of development and the lived realities of ordinary Chinese people. The current state of the village shows the fluidity of people passing through a place, rather than the "vibrancy" of the community. For example, what was once an elementary school now houses many migrants, exemplifying the transformations outside of Beijing's 5th ring, an area which has undergone huge changes in the last several years due to money flowing in through local governments and developers. The human changes are responses to the influx of money, but the pace of "progress" leaves people behind.
 

AL: Any upcoming projects? Do you planning on making a series of zines on gentrification in China?
SGC: Yes, the next zine in the series is going to be about Beijing's 簋街! It's going to be like a huge spicy party, but before the party is over the wrecking ball comes down on the house full of guests, and now we're trying to figure out if everyone survived. You're invited!

丝瓜集团(Sponge Gourd Collective) is a loofah for the future, a squad of green goons, a slimy surprise. We investigate urban transformation to explore Chinese futurities. With backgrounds in visual art, photography, anthropology, community organizing, film, and literature, we develop multimedia projects that broaden popular conceptions of China, to leave more room for the blurry spaces in between.

Our projects deconstruct unstable meanings of Chineseness and speak to Chinese youth and members of the global Chinese diaspora. Self-searching is a seed that sprouted this collective; as rapid development calls for a fluid, flexible future, our conceptions of identity too must remain open to flux.

You can reach the team at

spongegourdcollective.strikingly.com

or follow them on @siguajituan on Instagram

周大夫 Dr Zhou – Ready to Cast Your Narrative

Designer

Interview on February 26th at her studio in Huantie, Beijing

L: How long have you been creating art? Is this something you’ve studied?

YZ: No, actually. I started doing this in late 2013. It was the first project that I did after I graduated from the UK. In the beginning, I just did some body-casts and showed them at HomeShop, at that time that was an organisation in the hutong with artists and they'd have festivals or exhibitions. That was the first time I showed it to everybody and later, I was involved in other exhibitions and events. Officially, I started working on this full-time in 2014, one year later.

KL: What lead you to doing body casts?

YZ: The reason was that I studied industrial design. That’s more like doing products and lots of model making and I was particularly interested in materials, the process and trying new stuff so that’s why one day I tried a little cast on myself and thought, that’s cool. I didn’t let it go. I didn't know what I could do with it. After that, since I got back to China I thought, I have nothing to do so let’s continue the project.

KL: I can see a lot of hands. Are hands something that you like to focus on?

YZ: I think the hands have many combinations as body parts. For example, the ears and nose are just what they look like but for hands, you can have different gestures, different meanings. You can hold each other or have a single hand in different positions. I think that’s the reason why there are lots of hands here and they are all different.

KL: Do you think that hands do show a person’s personality?

YZ: Yeah, I believe that. That’s the interesting thing, people’s bodies are constantly changing every day but they do really notice. If you compare a young person’s hands with an old lady’s they are totally different so that is the time aspect. The time is reflecting on your hands. Also, there is a Chinese story saying in the old time, rich families daughters don't do hard work so their hands are really soft, very clean, but for the women in the countryside, they work on the farm, they have to take care of the children and also their livestock so their hands have lots of wrinkles and callouses. I do believe that.

KL: Is that something that you want to reflect in your art, the divide between wealth and poverty, leisure and hard work?

YZ: That's an old concept. We do believe this exists but in the modern times, everybody works at their computers. Maybe, just young and old and the passing of time. How you can see this aspect. One of my first customers actually told me a story that he wants to shake the hand of himself in twenty years. So he cast his hand right now in a holding gesture and he said, later I will let older me meet my younger self. This is meaningful and really poetic.

KL: You do other body parts as well, there is a piece here with somebody grabbing their belly. What are you trying to say with that?

YZ: Recently, I have been doing some larger scale casts because a woman asked me to do a cast of her pregnancy. This piece you see right now is actually a testing model. I want to test on myself to see whether it’s alright or what type of things I need to pay attention to. I did myself squeezing my belly because people think if you are chubby you can play with your belly. I think that’s an internet thing at the moment and I think it’s funny so I did it and it looks funny. Recently, we’ve had patients getting their face cast. They are usually couples and one couple looks very similar in their face. My mum couldn’t tell they were a couple. When they came she said, is that her sister? And I said, no, that’s her husband. So they decided to make two faces so they could take it out and see how similar they are. Many of their friends tell them they look like twins.

KL: That’s a strange kind of narcissism, falling in love with yourself.

YZ: I know. Exactly! I ask all of my patients to write a story why they want to do the cast and they wrote that if you like yourself you should marry a person that looks like you. That’s something really unusual that it would be hard to find elsewhere.

KL: It seems like a lot of people are commissioning these unique portraits. Are some of your works for exhibition? Do you try and put series together or is it mainly commission-based work?

YZ: I think we have quite a base of patients, about 260 right now, so it depends on different exhibitions and different themes. Like, last Valentine's Day we came up with a book with the theme of love. I selected the stories about love. Not only the love between couples but also, love between mum and daughter or unreachable love, people who didn't get their boyfriend or girlfriend. People who failed but still love them.

KL: How did you reflect unrequited love in your portraiture?

YZ: They usually write the story so when people see the hands they can read the story, too. I think they can relate them. We did a series called BodyMemory: STORIES last year in New York so we also asked people to donate their stories to us. To write us a message and give it to us or leave it on our WeChat account. When we do an exhibition we have a whole wall full of medical cases so everybody can participate. They can write their story and people can read about it. I think it’s half/half. People come to me to do a commission but during the process we talk and they tell me more about the story behind and I can be inspired. From my patients, I might get other stories or I can get more information and try to analyse it or get it together into a series.

KL: Have you ever considered doing a Cynthia Plaster Caster tribute in any way?

YZ: Somebody told me about her. They had a portable suitcase and they’d just knock on the door [of musician’s hotel rooms].

KL: Do you think you would ever do something so daring?

YZ: You mean making casts of penises?

KL: Yeah.

YZ: We had a hate series. Last Valentine's Day, somebody gave us a story asking, why on Valentine's Day does everybody give something to the people they love? Why not the people they hate? Do they deserve a piece of your hate? So he donated a dick cast. In America, there is slang "dickhead." It cannot translate in Chinese that well because you're commenting on your friends. You don't hate this person you just think he is annoying or bad. So we just cast the little bit on the top of the penis, the dick head, and turned it into a little sculpture so people can send it to the people they don't like.

KL: Were there any takers?

YZ: Yeah. Surprisingly, we also made some chocolates because it was Valentine’s Day and the chocolates sold pretty good. In another aspect, this could be a loving gift in the LGBT community. Gay friends probably laugh at it but it's also a talking point.

KL: In China, the government frowns upon anything pornographic or overtly sexual in any way. Was that a problem or is that something you worry about?

YZ: We do have some concerns about that. I don't want to be blocked by the government just because they think it’s pornography so I didn't release the hate series here. But, if somebody knows me on WeChat and they know what I’m doing and they really want that, they can still get it. It’s not publicly bought, it is more of a secret thing.

KL: Do you see yourself always continuing to collect narratives so you will have this life’s work of stories connected to some physical presence?

YZ: Yeah, I think I’ll do it until the day that I can’t do it. Maybe if some big changes happened in my life I would stop but so far I don’t think there is any problem with carrying this on. Also, we charge a fee for making casts so it’s also the income for my studio. It’s a healthy relationship. The customer/patient is happy to get a special gift and I’m doing what I like and they also really appreciate this project. That makes me enjoy doing it. I’ve recently received lots of messages from Weibo and WeChat saying, I just really like your project. I can really see the young people appreciate something different. Weird or special, they get the point. Ten years ago there might not have been much allowance or space for this type of project but right now with so many buyer shops opening, the trend of design, so many independent brands. People have different tastes and the market is getting more and more specified. I think that's a good sign for designers to find their position and their passion for what they like and what they really want to do. I feel that they do a few years and by the third year, they feel like it is kind of  hopeless. I think that is just because they haven't connected with their group. I've always believed that everything has its own audience but it's about how you find your audience. How you use your brand or personal influence as a magnet for those people. 

KL: Are your aspirations more commercial or artistic?

YZ: I’m still a product designer so I think I still consider the commercial side rather than the artistic but I still have an artistic side.

[At this point Li Zhou’s friend Eric interrupts to remind her of all the impressive gallery shows she has done in the US – see list at end of article]

KL: That’s impressive.

YZ: Let’s put it this way: I’m probably the most business-minded artist and the most artistic-minded person in business. It overlays because, I don't want to separate them, but, I do have an idea of how to sell these things and how to sell them at exhibitions as an art project. There are two parts to this project.

KL: How much do you guide your patients into the gestures or choices they make about body parts?

YZ: I think I usually ask them why they want to do it. They usually have some ideas. Whether it is a gift for themselves or a gift for a person they like. According to that, they will think about what their relationship is to that person. Otherwise, I will ask them if they have had any special experiences with your body parts. Maybe you cut your finger when you were little and it really hurt but later it was fine. Usually, it's really story-based.

KL: Do you find that the nature of your project makes it important that you have a very good rapport with your patients?

YZ: Yeah, I think so. I think it’s a really important part of our project. I would say the experience has equal weight to the result. So that’s why we build a whole narrative around this project otherwise it would become just some typical whatever project. That’s why I set up the doctor’s things and when I wear the doctor’s suit I feel like I am acting. I’m in the doctor mode. It’s a switch.

KL: So, it’s almost performance art in one way, too?

YZ: Well, kind of but it’s maybe not going that deep. This helps the customers come in. When they walk in and see a doctor’s office with all the decorations and they will put themselves in the role. When I ask them, what’s wrong with you today? He will understand he is a patient now. It is a whole process just like making an appointment, seeing a doctor. It all helps them understand the process rather than just going shopping.

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